Comments on: Black-White Issues Jump the Shark http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/ Neil Kramer is a writer in Los Angeles. Citizen of the Month is his blog. Make yourself at home. Sat, 05 Jul 2008 03:02:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: eclectic http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-163856 eclectic Mon, 19 Feb 2007 01:30:11 +0000 http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-163856 I look forward to meeting you at TC'07 in a couple of weeks, Neil. Moreso after reading this post. It isn't that race isn't an issue, it's just that as a society we need to reframe it now. The old refrains really have jumped the shark, as you said. Hate for its own sake is not to be tolerated anymore in our post-modern society. Generations ago, when survival dictated an "us vs. them" clannishness, perhaps it had purpose. If so, it doesn't anymore. Hate has no useful place or function in today's world, whatever its premise, whether race, gender, sexual orientation, age, intelligence, physical ability, etc. It's time to move ahead now. I look forward to meeting you at TC’07 in a couple of weeks, Neil. Moreso after reading this post. It isn’t that race isn’t an issue, it’s just that as a society we need to reframe it now. The old refrains really have jumped the shark, as you said. Hate for its own sake is not to be tolerated anymore in our post-modern society. Generations ago, when survival dictated an “us vs. them” clannishness, perhaps it had purpose. If so, it doesn’t anymore. Hate has no useful place or function in today’s world, whatever its premise, whether race, gender, sexual orientation, age, intelligence, physical ability, etc. It’s time to move ahead now.

]]> By: Mariana http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-162166 Mariana Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:11:42 +0000 http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-162166 That's interesting... You don't hear about women ganging up and beating other women very often. I guess you are interested in racial issues here, but there may be more to the story than just that (like gender issues mixed with racial issues) That’s interesting… You don’t hear about women ganging up and beating other women very often. I guess you are interested in racial issues here, but there may be more to the story than just that (like gender issues mixed with racial issues)

]]> By: Citizen of the Month » Thanks for Yesterday! http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-162088 Citizen of the Month » Thanks for Yesterday! Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:28:17 +0000 http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-162088 [...] Now this blog returns to doing what it does best — pontificating about racial issues. [...] [...] Now this blog returns to doing what it does best — pontificating about racial issues. [...]

]]> By: Dagny http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-162038 Dagny Thu, 15 Feb 2007 05:26:01 +0000 http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-162038 I whole-heartedly agree with you on that one, Jack. Then again, I may be a bit biased since I am a public school teacher. I happen to be blessed to work in an urban district that has a great deal of resources. I wish I could say the same for other urban districts. I whole-heartedly agree with you on that one, Jack. Then again, I may be a bit biased since I am a public school teacher. I happen to be blessed to work in an urban district that has a great deal of resources. I wish I could say the same for other urban districts.

]]> By: Jack http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-161859 Jack Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:56:52 +0000 http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-161859 This is the kind of conversation that can go all over the place. I am tired of the argument that I can't understand something because I don't look like someone. Truth is, I can understand a lot of things. We all have our own cross to bear. We all have our history. Some of us have had more challenges than others. But the bottom line is that you can choose to be someone or to be a victim. If you want to say that circumstances beyond your control prevent you from success you are giving up. I don't need to provide my credentials for why I understand suffering. To a large part that kind of comment is bullshit. It is a mask that we use to hide from some of the issues. In this day and age I agree that it has become more of a class issue than anything else. There are plenty of examples of educated minorites, many of whom are successful. And in terms of success it is not a matter of saying that the only successful Black people are athletes or performers.Not by a long shot. There are Black CEOs of Fortune 500 companies. Not just one or two, but many. Opportunities exist, but you have to work for them. The you in that last sentence is not directed at any one person/race/color/religion etc. Life is hard. Deal with it. IMO, one of the best and most important things this country can do is find a way to make a good education affordable to everyone. A good public education should be available everywhere, urban and suburban. Make that available to more people and more things will turn around. This is the kind of conversation that can go all over the place. I am tired of the argument that I can’t understand something because I don’t look like someone.

Truth is, I can understand a lot of things. We all have our own cross to bear. We all have our history. Some of us have had more challenges than others.

But the bottom line is that you can choose to be someone or to be a victim. If you want to say that circumstances beyond your control prevent you from success you are giving up.

I don’t need to provide my credentials for why I understand suffering. To a large part that kind of comment is bullshit. It is a mask that we use to hide from some of the issues.

In this day and age I agree that it has become more of a class issue than anything else. There are plenty of examples of educated minorites, many of whom are successful.

And in terms of success it is not a matter of saying that the only successful Black people are athletes or performers.Not by a long shot.

There are Black CEOs of Fortune 500 companies. Not just one or two, but many. Opportunities exist, but you have to work for them.

The you in that last sentence is not directed at any one person/race/color/religion etc.

Life is hard. Deal with it.

IMO, one of the best and most important things this country can do is find a way to make a good education affordable to everyone.

A good public education should be available everywhere, urban and suburban.

Make that available to more people and more things will turn around.

]]> By: Dagny http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-161707 Dagny Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:24:02 +0000 http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-161707 *sigh* I'm just curious. Have folks looked at the numbers lately? Do you realize that the numbers of African American males in prison is disproportionate to the total number in our society? This says to me that there is already something wrong with the system. I am not saying that these kids do not deserve to be punished but I also know that they will probably never escape the system at this time. They are lost. And it breaks my heart. Our criminal justice system has never had a problem with punishing African Americans for their crimes against others. It has had problems with punishing those who commit crimes against African Americans though. When first civil rights laws like Unruh in California and then later hate crime laws were passed, it gave some us of hope that perhaps now we would be heard. Applying them to everyone seems like more of the old status quo if you ask me. And that world? Sorry but I don't really want to be a part of that one. From what I've been told by family members, it really wasn't that good for my type. *sigh* I’m just curious. Have folks looked at the numbers lately? Do you realize that the numbers of African American males in prison is disproportionate to the total number in our society? This says to me that there is already something wrong with the system. I am not saying that these kids do not deserve to be punished but I also know that they will probably never escape the system at this time. They are lost. And it breaks my heart.

Our criminal justice system has never had a problem with punishing African Americans for their crimes against others. It has had problems with punishing those who commit crimes against African Americans though. When first civil rights laws like Unruh in California and then later hate crime laws were passed, it gave some us of hope that perhaps now we would be heard. Applying them to everyone seems like more of the old status quo if you ask me. And that world? Sorry but I don’t really want to be a part of that one. From what I’ve been told by family members, it really wasn’t that good for my type.

]]> By: 3rdtimesacharm( 3T ) http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-161688 3rdtimesacharm( 3T ) Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:42:19 +0000 http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-161688 Grow up? About this emotionally charged issue of racism? (Don't hold your breath there,Neil.) The fact remains that racism is alive and well here in 2007. Whether it be against the African American community, the Hispanic immigrants, or caucasions. The fact also remains that white priviledge is a state that has not changed much over the decades. I know even in my daughter's Mesa Jr. High School, there still is a segment of the school's population that remains segregated. In most cases, by choice. The fact also remains that there is a good deal of racism directed at the white population in our public schools. Whether it's due to white priviledge that Hispanic students hate white students is beyond me. I do know that my daughter has been told she is hated for no other reason than the color of her skin. She has been lumped together with the rest of the white students, or in this case, white girls. Again it is not all, but hatred due to race exists, although it may not be as bad as say the 1950's or 1960's, there are still groups within each community that hate due to the color of skin. In my opinion, a hate crime is a hate crime, whether directed at African Americans, Hispanics, illegal immigrants, or white people. If the crime perpetrated is in direct relations to race then the perpetrators need to receive the same punishment. A gang of kids brutally beating three other kids, is a hate crime. Period. The standard of regarding crimes by ethnic groups as less than the crimes of their white counterparts, is only adding to resentment, and fueling yet more Racism. I don't see a happy ending anywhere in the near future. Especially with the trends being set within our own Justice system. Just my two cents worth. Great topic Neil. 3T Grow up? About this emotionally charged issue of racism? (Don’t hold your breath there,Neil.) The fact remains that racism is alive and well here in 2007. Whether it be against the African American community, the Hispanic immigrants, or caucasions. The fact also remains that white priviledge is a state that has not changed much over the decades.
I know even in my daughter’s Mesa Jr. High School, there still is a segment of the school’s population that remains segregated. In most cases, by choice.
The fact also remains that there is a good deal of racism directed at the white population in our public schools. Whether it’s due to white priviledge that Hispanic students hate white students is beyond me. I do know that my daughter has been told she is hated for no other reason than the color of her skin. She has been lumped together with the rest of the white students, or in this case, white girls. Again it is not all, but hatred due to race exists, although it may not be as bad as say the 1950’s or 1960’s, there are still groups within each community that hate due to the color of skin.
In my opinion, a hate crime is a hate crime, whether directed at African Americans, Hispanics, illegal immigrants, or white people. If the crime perpetrated is in direct relations to race then the perpetrators need to receive the same punishment. A gang of kids brutally beating three other kids, is a hate crime. Period. The standard of regarding crimes by ethnic groups as less than the crimes of their white counterparts, is only adding to resentment, and fueling yet more Racism. I don’t see a happy ending anywhere in the near future. Especially with the trends being set within our own Justice system.
Just my two cents worth. Great topic Neil.
3T

]]> By: tamarika http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-161687 tamarika Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:32:53 +0000 http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-161687 "Confronting Our Discomfort" right here right now. A courageous post and a courageous discussion, Neil. No one can ever judge the pain of another person, nor can anyone know what it feels like to go through what another person has gone through. However, NOTHING justifies hurting others. NOTHING. Viktor Frankl lived through Auschwitz and realized that everything can be taken from you - your dignity, rights, your life - but one thing can never be taken from you: your attitude. NOTHING justifies hurting others. NOTHING. “Confronting Our Discomfort” right here right now. A courageous post and a courageous discussion, Neil. No one can ever judge the pain of another person, nor can anyone know what it feels like to go through what another person has gone through.

However, NOTHING justifies hurting others. NOTHING.

Viktor Frankl lived through Auschwitz and realized that everything can be taken from you - your dignity, rights, your life - but one thing can never be taken from you: your attitude.

NOTHING justifies hurting others. NOTHING.

]]> By: Jennifer http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-161680 Jennifer Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:21:13 +0000 http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-161680 I think you're right Dagny; there is less overt racism here. It still exists, but people have learned to live and work together side by side. I am enough of a romantic to believe that one day skin color will cease to matter all together. I am trying to so hard to raise my children to be color blind. I have never referred to anyone as "that black person" or "that Hispanic person". I call people by name and refer to them by their character, not their characteristics. *cues Whitney Houston singing "i believe the children are our future...lalalala...* Have you ever been to the civil rights institute in Birmingham? The first time I walked through the door I was absolutely bowled over by the power of the movement. The first time I went was MLK's birthday and they had a volunteer in a jail cell reading MLK's letter from a Birmingham Jail Cell....amazing!! I think you’re right Dagny; there is less overt racism here. It still exists, but people have learned to live and work together side by side. I am enough of a romantic to believe that one day skin color will cease to matter all together. I am trying to so hard to raise my children to be color blind. I have never referred to anyone as “that black person” or “that Hispanic person”. I call people by name and refer to them by their character, not their characteristics. *cues Whitney Houston singing “i believe the children are our future…lalalala…*
Have you ever been to the civil rights institute in Birmingham? The first time I walked through the door I was absolutely bowled over by the power of the movement. The first time I went was MLK’s birthday and they had a volunteer in a jail cell reading MLK’s letter from a Birmingham Jail Cell….amazing!!

]]> By: Tendrils http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-161548 Tendrils Wed, 14 Feb 2007 04:24:43 +0000 http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2007/02/13/black-white-issues-jump-the-shark/#comment-161548 Awesome post! I was directed to it by Better Safe Than Sorry after she read my post: 2007? from Feb. 12th. Thanks! Awesome post! I was directed to it by Better Safe Than Sorry after she read my post: 2007? from Feb. 12th.
Thanks!

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