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	<title>Comments on: Happy Bastille Day!</title>
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	<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/</link>
	<description>Neil Kramer is a writer in Los Angeles.  Citizen of the Month is his blog.  Make yourself at home.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 08:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-80837</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 18:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-80837</guid>
		<description>Sarah -- Thank you for that passionate response.  I think you make some excellent points.  And I also wonder if Israel is coming on too strong in this situation.  Although Hezbollah's strong showing with their missiles shows me that they were amassing a pretty hefty arsenal on Israel's border.  If this fighting didn't happen now, it would only happen later, with even more destruction, particularly in Israel.

As for you argument about Basque separatists and Spain, the comparison doesn't work.  Spain is actively trying to stop these separatists from creating violence and havoc.   Hezbollah not only seemingly runs Southern Lebanon, but are part of the government.  They are also an agent of foreign governments.  It would have been good if the Lebanese government was strong enough to kick Hezbollah out of the country, but instead they (along with UN observers) let a steady flow of weapons to come in from Iran to attack Israel.

Why do I not hear one word of blame for Hezbollah or Iran for all the violence?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah &#8212; Thank you for that passionate response.  I think you make some excellent points.  And I also wonder if Israel is coming on too strong in this situation.  Although Hezbollah&#8217;s strong showing with their missiles shows me that they were amassing a pretty hefty arsenal on Israel&#8217;s border.  If this fighting didn&#8217;t happen now, it would only happen later, with even more destruction, particularly in Israel.</p>
<p>As for you argument about Basque separatists and Spain, the comparison doesn&#8217;t work.  Spain is actively trying to stop these separatists from creating violence and havoc.   Hezbollah not only seemingly runs Southern Lebanon, but are part of the government.  They are also an agent of foreign governments.  It would have been good if the Lebanese government was strong enough to kick Hezbollah out of the country, but instead they (along with UN observers) let a steady flow of weapons to come in from Iran to attack Israel.</p>
<p>Why do I not hear one word of blame for Hezbollah or Iran for all the violence?</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-80833</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 17:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-80833</guid>
		<description>You ask, "What would he do if Spain went into France tonight and kidnapped some French soliders?" You might ask, "What would France do if a Basque militia crossed the border &#38; kidnapped French soldiers." The answer is definitely not bomb the entire nation of Spain killing hundreds of innocent civilians, decimating their infrastructure &#38; assuming Spain was a fledgling democracy, potentially toppling their government.
What's sad to me is that you support a bombardment of any nation. Government sanctioned violence should be a last resort, after all diplomatic channels have been tried &#38; exhasuted. In my opinion, this is Israel taking a que from George Bush's foreign policy, "come out gunslinging, ask questions later" &#38; Israel seems to be following that philosophy. Israel's military is so powerful that even the threat of it would have got the Lebanese gov't to help negotiate the kidnapped soldiers back. 
Another point is that Hezbollah had kidnapped IDF soldiers before &#38; had prisoner exchanges w/Israel, as that's their strategy for gaining back some of the thousands of Palestinian prisoners. As it stands now, Hezbollah is likely getting more support in the Arab world, as radical Islam groups will ultimately gain more support from the bombardment of innocent people.  
You say that France doesn't stand in Israel's shoes, but I have to ask, has Israel ever stood in a Palestinian or Arab's shoes. I would hope that those of you who support this massive bombing of Lebanon would imagine how you would feel if it was your home being bombed. If you saw your country &#38; people, who only in the past year gained great hope for the rebuilding of tehir country, decimated by a nation w/a mighty military, a nation who still occupies part of Lebanon- Shebaa Farms. At this point Israel has killed far more civilians &#38; Lebanese soldiers than actual Hezbollah fighters. With memories of 106 civilians killed in  the '96 shelling of Qana, &#38; Israel's previous invasion of Lebanon, I don't think the IDF is making positive strides. If you want a good neighbor, you should be a good neighbor. I hope for peace, but know there will be none until both sides can can stand in eachother's shoes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You ask, &#8220;What would he do if Spain went into France tonight and kidnapped some French soliders?&#8221; You might ask, &#8220;What would France do if a Basque militia crossed the border &amp; kidnapped French soldiers.&#8221; The answer is definitely not bomb the entire nation of Spain killing hundreds of innocent civilians, decimating their infrastructure &amp; assuming Spain was a fledgling democracy, potentially toppling their government.<br />
What&#8217;s sad to me is that you support a bombardment of any nation. Government sanctioned violence should be a last resort, after all diplomatic channels have been tried &amp; exhasuted. In my opinion, this is Israel taking a que from George Bush&#8217;s foreign policy, &#8220;come out gunslinging, ask questions later&#8221; &amp; Israel seems to be following that philosophy. Israel&#8217;s military is so powerful that even the threat of it would have got the Lebanese gov&#8217;t to help negotiate the kidnapped soldiers back.<br />
Another point is that Hezbollah had kidnapped IDF soldiers before &amp; had prisoner exchanges w/Israel, as that&#8217;s their strategy for gaining back some of the thousands of Palestinian prisoners. As it stands now, Hezbollah is likely getting more support in the Arab world, as radical Islam groups will ultimately gain more support from the bombardment of innocent people.<br />
You say that France doesn&#8217;t stand in Israel&#8217;s shoes, but I have to ask, has Israel ever stood in a Palestinian or Arab&#8217;s shoes. I would hope that those of you who support this massive bombing of Lebanon would imagine how you would feel if it was your home being bombed. If you saw your country &amp; people, who only in the past year gained great hope for the rebuilding of tehir country, decimated by a nation w/a mighty military, a nation who still occupies part of Lebanon- Shebaa Farms. At this point Israel has killed far more civilians &amp; Lebanese soldiers than actual Hezbollah fighters. With memories of 106 civilians killed in  the &#8216;96 shelling of Qana, &amp; Israel&#8217;s previous invasion of Lebanon, I don&#8217;t think the IDF is making positive strides. If you want a good neighbor, you should be a good neighbor. I hope for peace, but know there will be none until both sides can can stand in eachother&#8217;s shoes.</p>
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		<title>By: BA</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-77173</link>
		<dc:creator>BA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-77173</guid>
		<description>Wow.  Quite the comments you've started here Neil.

I would agree with Nelumbo, in part.  Certainly, France's influx of Muslims, especially Arab Muslims, would be one reason why Chirac's position is what it is.  However, I would disagree that it is the only reason.  In his outstanding book, Constantine's Sword: A History of the Church and the Jews, former Catholic priest and Harvard Divinity School fellow, James Carroll, explains the intolerable history of the church and the European Jewish community.  A history, which he contends, culminated in the ability of the Nazi regime to arise and engage in the ultimate pogrom, the Holocaust.  While many people have moved beyond the blood libels and anti-Jewish slanders of the past, I think it would be short-sighted to assume that they are eliminated from the European consciousness and don't, at times, affect European policy, particularly towards Israel, the Jewish state.  Indeed, France has a very recent history of a rise in anti-Semitism (and by that, I mean the historically understood use of that term as anti-Jewish), so much so that it led Ariel Sharon to take the extraordinary step of encouraging  French Jews to make aliah.  So, while Chirac may be pandering in part, I doubt that it is his only motive.

Another interesting thread that has spawned from this post is whether Jews are a religion, a culture, etc.  I've always found that issue particularly facsinating.  Indeed, the question is one that is even addressed in a museum in Israel, the Diaspora Museum.  But, ultimately, the conclusion I've taken from history is that Jews are properly recognized as a nation.

It is only a recent development, in historical terms, that religion spans international boundries.  In ancient times, each geographical region or state had its own religion.  And ancient Israel was Jews.

While many of those regional religions were killed off or converted, after the destruction of the First and Second Temples and into the Diaspora, Jews retained their religion.  And although Jewish culture has many permutations (such as Ashkenasi, Sephardic, Ethiopian, etc.) it has retained some uniform characteristics (characteristics that many nations have attempted to outlaw or outright destroy).

So while it is correct to refer to Judaism as a religion, to relegate it solely to a religion doesn't really express or convey the culture and nationalism the Jewish community has developed from this history.  And, for many Jews, including myself, the state of Israel is the realization of the culmination of that nationality, the return to the Jewish homeland after the Roman destruction of the Second Temple and the expulsion of much of the Jewish community.

Neil, thanks for another fabulous and thought provoking post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  Quite the comments you&#8217;ve started here Neil.</p>
<p>I would agree with Nelumbo, in part.  Certainly, France&#8217;s influx of Muslims, especially Arab Muslims, would be one reason why Chirac&#8217;s position is what it is.  However, I would disagree that it is the only reason.  In his outstanding book, Constantine&#8217;s Sword: A History of the Church and the Jews, former Catholic priest and Harvard Divinity School fellow, James Carroll, explains the intolerable history of the church and the European Jewish community.  A history, which he contends, culminated in the ability of the Nazi regime to arise and engage in the ultimate pogrom, the Holocaust.  While many people have moved beyond the blood libels and anti-Jewish slanders of the past, I think it would be short-sighted to assume that they are eliminated from the European consciousness and don&#8217;t, at times, affect European policy, particularly towards Israel, the Jewish state.  Indeed, France has a very recent history of a rise in anti-Semitism (and by that, I mean the historically understood use of that term as anti-Jewish), so much so that it led Ariel Sharon to take the extraordinary step of encouraging  French Jews to make aliah.  So, while Chirac may be pandering in part, I doubt that it is his only motive.</p>
<p>Another interesting thread that has spawned from this post is whether Jews are a religion, a culture, etc.  I&#8217;ve always found that issue particularly facsinating.  Indeed, the question is one that is even addressed in a museum in Israel, the Diaspora Museum.  But, ultimately, the conclusion I&#8217;ve taken from history is that Jews are properly recognized as a nation.</p>
<p>It is only a recent development, in historical terms, that religion spans international boundries.  In ancient times, each geographical region or state had its own religion.  And ancient Israel was Jews.</p>
<p>While many of those regional religions were killed off or converted, after the destruction of the First and Second Temples and into the Diaspora, Jews retained their religion.  And although Jewish culture has many permutations (such as Ashkenasi, Sephardic, Ethiopian, etc.) it has retained some uniform characteristics (characteristics that many nations have attempted to outlaw or outright destroy).</p>
<p>So while it is correct to refer to Judaism as a religion, to relegate it solely to a religion doesn&#8217;t really express or convey the culture and nationalism the Jewish community has developed from this history.  And, for many Jews, including myself, the state of Israel is the realization of the culmination of that nationality, the return to the Jewish homeland after the Roman destruction of the Second Temple and the expulsion of much of the Jewish community.</p>
<p>Neil, thanks for another fabulous and thought provoking post.</p>
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		<title>By: Nelumbo</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76797</link>
		<dc:creator>Nelumbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76797</guid>
		<description>Getting back to your original question- 
I think Chirac is probably avoiding looking pro-Isreal so the Muslims of France don't go nuts.  Weren't there some nasty riots near Paris not too long ago in Muslim suburbs?

And yes, I'm reading this days later.  Blog posts, like pizza, are sometimes better a few days later, especially when comments get crazy like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting back to your original question-<br />
I think Chirac is probably avoiding looking pro-Isreal so the Muslims of France don&#8217;t go nuts.  Weren&#8217;t there some nasty riots near Paris not too long ago in Muslim suburbs?</p>
<p>And yes, I&#8217;m reading this days later.  Blog posts, like pizza, are sometimes better a few days later, especially when comments get crazy like this.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76723</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76723</guid>
		<description>I just wanted to add that I’ll have a lot more respect for the Palestinians again when they stop blaming and hating everyone else for their lives, when they vote for Abbas’s vision of the future over Hamas’s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to add that I’ll have a lot more respect for the Palestinians again when they stop blaming and hating everyone else for their lives, when they vote for Abbas’s vision of the future over Hamas’s.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76708</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 03:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76708</guid>
		<description>I just wrote about Israel on my most recent post too and I agree with most of what you said. Anyway, the partition in 47 by the UN was supposed to include two states, but the Palestinians and their Arab "brothers" didn't want that so they attacked Israel on the day after it was begun. They rolled the dice and they lost, and since, how many times have they attacked Israel? Israel wouldn't have the Golan Heights and much of their country if ALL FIVE of their neighbors hadn't attacked Israel in 67, on Yom Kippur no less. Its not about land, and they refuse to take out of their charter that their stated purpose is to destroy Israel period. I've always supported a Palestinian state, but when they voted in huge majorities for Hamas this past election, they voted in mass for terrorism. Heres another sweet development that demonstrates the mentality of the people who Israel is being asked to "negotiate" with. 
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/739900.html

Would you negotiate the safety of your own families with people who have written, explicit mission statements to destroy you, to totally wipe you off the face of the Earth? Oh I'm so mad all over again so I will stop!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wrote about Israel on my most recent post too and I agree with most of what you said. Anyway, the partition in 47 by the UN was supposed to include two states, but the Palestinians and their Arab &#8220;brothers&#8221; didn&#8217;t want that so they attacked Israel on the day after it was begun. They rolled the dice and they lost, and since, how many times have they attacked Israel? Israel wouldn&#8217;t have the Golan Heights and much of their country if ALL FIVE of their neighbors hadn&#8217;t attacked Israel in 67, on Yom Kippur no less. Its not about land, and they refuse to take out of their charter that their stated purpose is to destroy Israel period. I&#8217;ve always supported a Palestinian state, but when they voted in huge majorities for Hamas this past election, they voted in mass for terrorism. Heres another sweet development that demonstrates the mentality of the people who Israel is being asked to &#8220;negotiate&#8221; with.<br />
<a href="http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/739900.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/739900.html</a></p>
<p>Would you negotiate the safety of your own families with people who have written, explicit mission statements to destroy you, to totally wipe you off the face of the Earth? Oh I&#8217;m so mad all over again so I will stop!</p>
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		<title>By: egan</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76541</link>
		<dc:creator>egan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76541</guid>
		<description>Oh, this is a political post.  I try not to comment on them.  Just a simple rule of mine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, this is a political post.  I try not to comment on them.  Just a simple rule of mine.</p>
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		<title>By: Citizen of the Month &#187; A Croc of a Post</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76536</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen of the Month &#187; A Croc of a Post</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76536</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;Then you practically called all your French-born readers a bunch of anti-Semites.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;Then you practically called all your French-born readers a bunch of anti-Semites.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sissi</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76219</link>
		<dc:creator>Sissi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76219</guid>
		<description>So, what are you writing about next, Neil?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, what are you writing about next, Neil?</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76205</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2006/07/14/happy-bastille-day/#comment-76205</guid>
		<description>And here I thought it was just us Sicilians who lived by the vendetta.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here I thought it was just us Sicilians who lived by the vendetta.</p>
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