AP Newswire — Neil “Neilochka” Kramer, a popular blogger from Los Angeles, and a well-known advocate for women’s issues (despite him being a red-meat eating hetereosexual), has called for a boycott of many of the top fashion designers and most exclusive boutiques.
“A few days after writing my post on stereotypes against “fat” people, I went shopping for a Mother’s Day gift for my mother-in-law,” said Mr. Kramer.
My mother-in-law is size 18-20, and as usual, it was impossible to find any nice clothes for her. When I got home, I did some Googling on the fashion industry. It immediately became clear to me that most fashion designers and popular boutiques do not want their fashions to be worn by anyone over size 12. Even the popular H&M in New York doesn’t carry any large sizes.
I think there can be a strong argument that these companies are involved in discrimination. These fashion designers and boutiques are involved in an apartheid system, making everyone over size 12 a second-class citizen. I say it is time for the female consumer to take back control. I am going to start keeping a list of every designer and boutique that ignores larger sizes. This list will contain some of biggest names in fashion. I suggest that women refuse to shop in these stores or wear a designer’s clothes until the companies change their discriminatory practices against larger sized women. I know most women are caring and supportive of each other, and will be glad to show support for their heavier friends.”
Some female bloggers were surprisingly unsupportive.
“Not wear Dolce & Gabbana?” asked Joan, a Cleveland mother who writes the blog, “The Daily Fashionista. “Is Neilochka crazy?”
Other female bloggers just quietly dropped him from their blogroll.
There is a long tradition of the billion dollar fashion industry catering to what it considers the “thin” elite. According to the Washington Post, H&M discontinued carrying larger sizes after being publicly scolded by fashion designer Karl Lagerfeld.
“Chanel designer Karl Lagerfeld complained publicly that in a much-hyped collaboration, the company had manufactured his line in larger sizes. “What I created was fashion for slim, slender people,” he was quoted as saying.
The designer’s recent book, “The Karl Lagerfeld Diet,” encourages readers to subsist on raw vegetables, curiously named “protein sachets,” and little else — ostensibly with the goal of looking like the emaciated Lagerfeld himself, who pared his 5-foot-11 frame by 80 pounds on the plan.
Lagerfeld’s motivation? Not health, as he freely admits in the book’s introduction, but the desire to fit into designer clothes.
If you’re H&M, [industry analyst] Cohen asked, which is more important to the image of your brand: your association with Karl Lagerfeld or serving this market?”
Mr. Kramer thinks it is attitudes like those of Mr. Lagerfeld that have made this an important issue.
“I really think this boycott idea could work,” insists the defiant Mr. Kramer. “Look what’s going on in Georgia. When women come together, they can be powerful.”
Mr. Kramer refers to the current protest going on at the Augusta National Golf Club, where Bill Payne, the new chair, has stated that he will uphold the all-male club’s practice of denying membership to women.
“It was these women’s organizations that led the 2003 protest against the Masters Golf Tournament, and caused CBS to broadcast the event without corporate sponsorship for two years in a row.”
Currently, these same organizations are trying to raise public awareness of companies who sponsor the Masters or whose CEOs maintain their Augusta memberships, which violates their companies’ anti-discrimination policies.
Mr. Kramer is anxious to speak with these women.
“I am trying to reach members of National Council of Women’s Organizations and the Feminist Majority and tell them about my boycott idea, said Mr. Kramer. “If anyone could get this off the ground, it is these committed women. My argument to them is simple: The NCWO and the Feminist Majority consider male-only golfing as a way of keeping the old boy’s network alive. I believe that a lack of shopping opportunities prevents large women from building important friendships with thin assoicates.”
So far, no one from these women’s organizations has returned Mr. Kramer’s calls.
A spokeswoman from the Feminist Majority, however, told the New York Times that, “Most of our members have strong opinions on the fashion industry. We call for the elimination of all fur products and the abolishment of the sweatshop. But really, when you work hard to look thin, you want to dress nice. Most of our members are not going to shop at Walmart with the fatties.”
You’d laugh, but a friend actually told me that in the USA you can be vary “in” fashin speaking because you get designer clothes every imaginable size and that I might contemplate ordering them from there. looks like she got it wrong.
There’s a real anti-fat-psychose going on. I believe that the induatry is just a mirror of how are societies are behaving these days.
There was a polemic about a reality show for models where a model was told she was fat. She weighted 54 kgs for 1.78cm or something like that. i believe it happened in Germany, if am not mistaken.
I rarely find anything that fits well here, I love t-shirts and tops but am compelled pick them in the boys section because the gril’s look like bras on me. It’s terrible. Now I just have my stuff done by a modiste.
Fitèna
Oh boy, is this post gonna open a can of whoop ass. And rightfully so! I completely agree with you.
This is going to be good
Sign me up for the boycott!
Who the hell wears a size 0, by the way? Can someone tell me? (I wear anything from a 4 to an 8, depending on where I buy the clothes – I’ll never understand that wide shift in sizing.)
Neil, you’re really on to something. But at the same time, you’ve avoided one issue that is central to the way we perceive weight issues in this country: Class. Women who “can’t control their weight” are seen as lower class citizens than the ones who “can stay trim” — that is not my personal opinion, but the prevailing cultural norm. You said so yourself: Fat girls shop at Wal-Mart. Skinny girls shop wherever they want to. The nicer the boutique, the smaller the sizes. (I’m a size 14, by the way, and have found lots of clothes at H&M that fit me.)
we have H&M here, i’m sure i’ve seen the bigger sizes theree as well, but i’ve never seen anything in there that appeals to me. i say forget the clothes for mother’s day, you should have gotten your mom a spa day.
This is definitely going to stir the pot, but in a good way. I wish someone would address the varying sizes issue. A size 8 should be an 8, no matter where you are. The way it is now, I go into one store and things are so tight I feel like a cow and the next store they’re so loose I decide I can have ice cream for dinner. Both of those are equally not good.
I’ve been accidentally boycotting fashionalble clothing forever. Why not pretend it’s intentional? Sign me up! I’ll continue to wear the style-less leavings I’ve always worn.
Hello, Neil.
If you get any more on top of things, the fasionistas are going to try to assassinate you, probably by smothering you in fur.
Funny and timely, Neilochka.
I know a couple of women who wear size 0. They are barely over 5′. I know even more women who wear a size 14 or larger. My friends and I often shop at the Gap owned stores or Ann Taylor. Why? Because we can all find our sizes there.
The other thing to remember is that the way our clothes are sized was developed on a mathematical formula from measurements taken off “average women” in the 1940s. They measured a bunch of women who were around a size 6 and calculated up and down in regular increments to develop sizes.
That is why a woman can perhaps find a pair of pants that fit perfectly, but not necessarily a dress of the same size — not everyone’s butt grows in the same proportion to their boobs.
The question of inconsistent sizing raised by Just Run is another big issue. Some retailers deliberately over size their clothing so that more women will shop at those stores. For example, a pair of size 12 trousers from NY and Co will fit me perfectly, while a size 12 from the Gap make me look like I’m strapped in khaki sausage casing.
Retailers have all kinds of tricks to make us buy their clothes. Undersizing is the least of the problems in women’s apparel.
Bon. Maybe I should blog about this, too. I obviously am having a very hard time shutting up.
Just to show support for you, I will not go to Wal-Mart today.
I will wait until tomorrow.
Michele, typically women’s clothing sizes are made so that the bust and hip measurements are 10 inches larger than the waist.
Aw, heck yeah.
I’m 5’10″ and wear a size 14/16. FORGET trying to find something fashionable in a tall size in the stores….nothing doing in that realm. Therefore, I too have accidentaly been boycotting all fashionable fashion for many many years (and do most of my shopping online), and will continue to do so in solidarity with this new movement.
I’m going to have to mull this over…my allegiance may be to fashion.
There was an article published recently in the Boston Globe: [Size]0 is the new 8. Specialty retailers will vanity size for their customers in order to get them to keep coming back.
The smaller the size, the better we feel. The better we feel in their clothes, the more we will come back and shop them again.
Bottom line is that it’s a business, and they will do what they can to keep it afloat.
(spoken by a true merchant – me)
My female readers:
You’re not getting off so easy.
Did you support boycotting South Africa during apartheid? Do you agree with this protest at the men’s only golf club? Do you think businesses should be required to have wheelchair access for the 1% that needs it? Do you think that taxplayers should be required to pay for an interpreter whenever a Spanish-speaking criminal is in court? Did you know that state colleges must supply sign language translators for students who are deaf?
Do you think stores should be required to carry women’s sizes — at least up to size 20?
Would you be willing to NOT shop in a store that didn’t do this as a sign of protest? As a man, I can pretty much shop anywhere — unless I was extremely BIG or TALL — not the average American size.
Would you NOT wear a designer that did NOT make clothes for all women? There are many designers that do — such as Calvin Klein.
I happen to know for a FACT that Calvin Klein does not make jeans for three-legged women. My friend, we’ll call her Trish, has two left feet, but she’s a great dancer.
Hello again.
Finally, the easiest decision to make:
in answer to all of your questions, Neil: NO, No,and NONONONONONO.
Government, on any level, should not mandate business. When retail behemots discover they’re loosing disability’s target audience, they’ll accomodate all kinds of potential customers. There should be no law requiring wheelchair access- and I say it as a professional conract interior designer. No taxpayer’s money should be used for interpreters in public court, in any language – let private charity pay for it. Boycotting men-only golf courses is ineffectual – open your own and put a sign “women only” and be done with it.
Fashion industry, as any industry, is regulating itself. If things are as they are, there must be some data in marketing research that supports the reasons for it. I any case, asking for more government regulation is only asking for more trouble, for everyone concerned.
Scott, sorry, I was zoning out for a second, thinking about the possibilities of being with a three legged woman.
Tatyana - I love the fact that you are such a straight-shooter and consistent!
Neil, can I say I love your work w/out sounding like a brown-noser? And to answer your above questions, in order: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Like Scott, I’ve been unintentionally boycotting the fashion industry for years now, why not let it mean something more! But can we do something about finding my size on the clearance rack at Old Navy?
Jules
Neil, I loved you questions; if only every web of contradicting considerations I have been entangled in recently was so easy to answer!
In support of the notion suggested in this post, I am hereby proposing the adoption of universal nudism in the United States, as a way of ensuring equality among people of all bone structures and body-fat percentages.
And also because the deodorant companies would like to expand their addressable market, and I own their stock.
Hmmm. I guess it wouldn’t be too hard for me to join the boycott since I cannot afford to buy Lagerfeld’s stuff anyway. My problem is that I like to shop the clearance rack. Apparently women who wear smaller sizes also like to pay full price so I never find much. Instead I find a great number of items in sizes 10-14.
Ok, so does this mean you’re going to boycot Victoria’s Secret too? Just curious.
Universal nudism would not discourage the disenfranchisement of fat people. Before long, in fact, they’d be burning fat people at the stake, I’m afraid.
I’m sorry, were you talking about something? I’m still too busy poring over your post’s first photo with a magnifying glass.
Apparently, Scott, you have never come close to the nudie beach. 85% (and I’m trying to err on a down side) of participants are on a heavy side.
Jules — Old Navy is Gap Inc. low end brand. They do carry size 18 and 20. However, the Gap doesn’t want the same customers to shop at their higher-end Gap stores, like The Gap and the Banana Republic, which do NOT carry larger sizes. You can buy large sizes from the Gap online, but they refuse to actually carry it IN THEIR STORES, thinking an influx of heavy teenagers would be a turn-off for others — but they will still take their money, just online where nobody can see them.
Also, what’s all this complaining about blacks being at the back of the bus? They’re comfortable there. They get to where they’re going. If a private company wants it that way, I don’t see whats wrong with it. Actually, when I used to take the bus to school, the black kids would always go to the back of the bus anyway — so maybe it’s just natural, like large sized woman buying their clothes in the top floor of Macy’s, next to the restrooms.
Neil, I don’t think I’ve seen a size 18 or 20 in an Old Navy store actually, with the exception of their flagship store in San Francisco. Of course that store also stocks leather and suede items as well as maternity wear. I think for most of the rest of the country these items are only available online.
Neil, I’m sure you would apply same anti-apartheid principles and call for boycott of Black Entertainment Network or demand equal racial representation on Ebony magazine.
Ebony magazine doesn’t cater to me. Neither does the Catholic Church. I don’t expect Protestants to want equal rights as rabbis. If Ebony became big enough, like the Oprah show, then I would expect them to strive for more racial representation.
But if Macy’s is going to treat me as a second class citizen, then I would want to put my money were my mouth is.
I don’t see principal difference, Neil. If Ebony became big enough, like the Oprah show, then I would expect them to strive for more racial representation- so it’s a matter of size, not principle? If not, then proprietors of Ebony are doing something illegal.
And are you telling me Oprah show’s programming policy is mandated by some government fiat?
I never heard Macy’s or GAP solemnly swear they are going to cater to people of all classes/sizes/walks of life. Good example above, with maternity clothes. What, all mothers-to-be around the country should feel they are treated as second-class citizens because only the flagship store in SF carries appropriate clothes?
And who said anything about Catholic Church and rabbis? Don’t change the subject dragging religion and race into the matter, Neil. You started on business policies and advocate government interference in it. Stay put-or even your valid arguments look more like liberal demagoguery.
I’ve shopped at all the Gap, Inc. stores and hardly ever find my size on clearance…yes I’m a bargain shopper and I admit to being a size 4. (Please no hate mail….LOL) My sister, size 1, always buys everything at 50% off because no one else can fit into it…maybe that’s why the thin are able to afford fashionable clothing – they get it at discount – LOL. Apparently, I’m not thin ENOUGH to get it cheap.
Woo hoo! A good old fashioned boycott! Katie, save the grocery bags! We’re making our own clothes this week!
I don’t think calling for a boycott is asking for government intervention. It’s something that people do in a free market. I think what Neil is calling for is a boycott in the same way that the United Farm Workers asked that people not buy grapes in the 70s. If no one is buying your product, then you either go out of business or you start listening to your customers.
OK, drop the government interference. If enough people wanted to work for Ebony, they could organize to push them into doing so. But there would not be much support. But there is a large percentage of women over size 12 — actually the majority. I’m curious why women aren’t more outspoken — especially since they ARE the majority.
not sure how many women want the ridicule…plain and simple
Most women I know who are size 12 or larger are busy dieting to try to get into a smaller size. And then there are the ones like my stepmother who goes every few years for more liposuction.
Yeah, I wouldn’t be making that statement: Hi, I’ve got a huge ass! Where are my pants?
Nope. Just can’t see it. There is still too much cultural shame around weight — and the unspoken impression that people who are heavy are lazy, uneducated, poor, and have no self-control.
Seriously. What the clothing designers offer is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to issues around weight in this country.
Dagny, I was responding to the comment Neil made higher up the thread:
…Do you think businesses should be required to have wheelchair access for the 1% that needs it? Do you think that taxplayers should be required to pay for an interpreter whenever a Spanish-speaking criminal is in court? Did you know that state colleges must supply sign language translators for students who are deaf?
Do you think stores should be required to carry women’s sizes — at least up to size 20?
If that’snot calling for government interference, what is?
I have nothing against boycotting any Co on a free market or simply preferring certain stores by fly of fancy-that’s how the mechanism works. Just don’t get the government involved-it’s called FREE market for a reason. In fact, DAgny, we’re in agreement.
Neil, you misunderstood:I wasn’t talking about staff that Ebony or BEN employs-for what little I know they might be EOE. I talk about the target audience they cater to-wasn’t that the subject of your post? You didn’t say anything about impossibility for a woman size 16 to WORK for MAcy’s, did you? Only to SHOP,right?
As to why women aren’t more outspoken – I dunno, if more women were like my sister may be situation would improve. She sometimes gets frustrated by the lack of bigger sizes and asks the floor manager to make an adjustment in their purchasing policy.
Frankly, buying your mother-in-law clothes is just weird.
As businesses, they can sell what they want. They may be missing out on a substantial market, but that’s there choice. Other stores do tap into larger sizes as their primary market like Lane Bryant or even Torrid (something of a plus-size version of Hot Topic). Isaac Mizrahi designs for Target with sizes up to 18 for prices much more affordable than the big dept. stores.
I’d rather they changed the sizing system to one based on measurements like it is for men. (I know it sort of is, but as has been said before store’s undersize so no size is a fixed value.) If pants were offered with a variety of waist and inseam measurements (like men’s), I’d have a much easier time shopping. I’m lucky if something is offered in tall or long.
I think Neil is just upset because he can’t find a little black dress that fits him just right.
It’s okay, Neil. You can tell us. We’re your friends.
I also think much of this depends upon geography. I *am* a size 0. I live in NE Ohio. I have a helluva time finding age-appropriate clothes in ANY store to fit me. The majority of women’s stores here START at 6 or 8 and go up through the plus sizes. Places like Banana R. or Express or Gap have maybe 1 or 2 size 0s at the start of the season and they sell immediately. I’m tired of paying 80 bucks for a nice pair of dress pants to wear to teach in. And don’t recommend the Junior Department: I can’t risk dressing like my students!
Nance, come shopping in NY or NJ or any state with considerable enough Asian female population; it would make perfect sense money-wise. What you could save on clothing prices will make up 3-fold on those plane tkts.
To be honest, there are far more pressing issues in this world than whether or not I can squeeze my ass into a size 4 pair of designer jeans. Now if Dolce and Gabbana was directly responsible for AIDS, poverty, or war, I might give it a second thought.
I bet Dolce & Gabbaba is responsible for at least a little bit of AIDS and poverty. War? Maybe not.
i’ve been boycotting without the hoopla. when you are over a size 12, you DO struggle to find fashion. it can be pretty mind boggling to one’s self esteem. imagine being a young girl just wanting to fit in and wear Esprit but you are a size too big so you diet and starve and exercise and become obsessed with your body image.
this could be the first step on a long journey to helping all young girls and women gain self-esteem. if wearing a size 18 wasn’t so stigmatized, the world would be a different place.
and yes, there are far more pressing issues but we can’t deal with all of them at once so we have to do what we can in little increments.
and “protein sachets”? fucking priceless! ha ha.
Heather — good point about this being a small issue compared to poverty and war — but are you sure you really believe that?
What is your opinion on that protest at the golf course? Is it no big deal about not letting women in there to play golf? After all, it’s mostly going to just be a bunch of mega-wealthy women anyway?
And can you think of anything more mundane than the issue of gay scoutmasters in the Boy Scouts? Does it matter to you?
I think sometimes, it is the small issues that matter.
And Scott — a little black dress? in may? in Los Angeles? Right now I’m all about wearing flowing dresses in pastel colors that bring out the green in my eyes.
You will just say anything to get attention from women, won’t you.