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	<title>Comments on: I Wanna Be Taken SERIOUSLY</title>
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	<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2005/08/28/i-wanna-be-taken-seriously/</link>
	<description>Neil Kramer is a writer in Los Angeles (well, New York now).  Citizen of the Month is his blog.  Make yourself at home.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Michael Blowhard</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2005/08/28/i-wanna-be-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-10432</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Blowhard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/?p=258#comment-10432</guid>
		<description>I have faith in Jackie -- I think she'd laugh me off. A sign of her greatness, perhaps?

And don't you dare associate me with critics! I'm one with the teeming masses, I am ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have faith in Jackie &#8212; I think she&#8217;d laugh me off. A sign of her greatness, perhaps?</p>
<p>And don&#8217;t you dare associate me with critics! I&#8217;m one with the teeming masses, I am &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2005/08/28/i-wanna-be-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-10412</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/?p=258#comment-10412</guid>
		<description>Michael Blowhard --  I think we probably agree on this.  Except you're taking the angle from the POV of the critic examing art, where I was starting from the POV of the artist who feels insecure working in a "low" art.   The moral of "Sullivan's Travels," was that the hero learned that his dumb movies were of more social use than anything he would do that is "serious."  I'm glad you bring up Mark Twain and Cary Grant, two of the most unassuming artists we've had, neither of them who went around thinking of themselves as "artists.".  I'm sure Mark Twain enjoyed his popularity and would be surprised today to learn that he is included as part of America's literary canon.   I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you tell Jackie Collins that she should be taken seriously, she might ACTUALLY start taking herself seriously, and then where are we going to have smutty books to read?  Look what happened to Jerry Lewis after the French started to take him seriously?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Blowhard &#8212;  I think we probably agree on this.  Except you&#8217;re taking the angle from the POV of the critic examing art, where I was starting from the POV of the artist who feels insecure working in a &#8220;low&#8221; art.   The moral of &#8220;Sullivan&#8217;s Travels,&#8221; was that the hero learned that his dumb movies were of more social use than anything he would do that is &#8220;serious.&#8221;  I&#8217;m glad you bring up Mark Twain and Cary Grant, two of the most unassuming artists we&#8217;ve had, neither of them who went around thinking of themselves as &#8220;artists.&#8221;.  I&#8217;m sure Mark Twain enjoyed his popularity and would be surprised today to learn that he is included as part of America&#8217;s literary canon.   I guess what I&#8217;m trying to say is that if you tell Jackie Collins that she should be taken seriously, she might ACTUALLY start taking herself seriously, and then where are we going to have smutty books to read?  Look what happened to Jerry Lewis after the French started to take him seriously?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Blowhard</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2005/08/28/i-wanna-be-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-10409</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Blowhard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/?p=258#comment-10409</guid>
		<description>I thought "guylit" was generally acknowledged to be technothrillers -- all machinery, thrills, armaments, geopolitical crises, reporting-for-duty, dealing-with-dumb-generals, the complete opposite/reverse/inverse/whatever of chicklit. I could never get through more than a few pages of technothrillers, myself -- I guess I'm not guy enough. And, yeah, there's a whole lad-lit thing going on, with sitcommy bittersweet growing-up themes and tones: Tom Perrotta, Hornby, some others.

Hey -- and, beware, a semi-Serious question coming your way -- isn't America a bit of a special case? Nearly all of what has become our own particular arts-canon started off as commercial, or as popular. Our high-art tradition is a rather minor and always beleaguered one, where our folk and commercial arts have had a lot of gung-ho energy behind them. "Huckleberry Finn" is basically a kids' adventure novel. Duke Ellington was composing and performing dance music for sweaty crowds. Cary Grant and Howard Hawks were doing their best to make crowd-pleasers. And we'd be dumb, and we'd be denying ourselves a lot of pleasure, if we quarreled with this. (And yes, I know that a lot of what we now think of as Euro high arts weren't created as High Art. America still takes the commercial thing to an extreme.) 

Yet how to handle this, so far as the lightweight/heavyweight thing goes? Do we proclaim Cary Grant a "great artist" and then discuss his work in sombre tones? We'd be missing the point, no? Yet, y'know, it looks to me like maybe he really was a great artist. And maybe it's worth spending a little time looking at his work and thinking about it and discussing it, and even "appreciating" its virutes and maybe even learning from it some. Yet we have to avoid getting too damn sombre about it, no? 

I dunno what to make of all this, do you? I tend to conlude that it's less about making "objective" judgments and more about how we take these things. You aren't going to have an emotionally wrenching Dostoeyevskian experience watching "Topper." You're going to have something else completely. Yet maybe it's pretty great in its own right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought &#8220;guylit&#8221; was generally acknowledged to be technothrillers &#8212; all machinery, thrills, armaments, geopolitical crises, reporting-for-duty, dealing-with-dumb-generals, the complete opposite/reverse/inverse/whatever of chicklit. I could never get through more than a few pages of technothrillers, myself &#8212; I guess I&#8217;m not guy enough. And, yeah, there&#8217;s a whole lad-lit thing going on, with sitcommy bittersweet growing-up themes and tones: Tom Perrotta, Hornby, some others.</p>
<p>Hey &#8212; and, beware, a semi-Serious question coming your way &#8212; isn&#8217;t America a bit of a special case? Nearly all of what has become our own particular arts-canon started off as commercial, or as popular. Our high-art tradition is a rather minor and always beleaguered one, where our folk and commercial arts have had a lot of gung-ho energy behind them. &#8220;Huckleberry Finn&#8221; is basically a kids&#8217; adventure novel. Duke Ellington was composing and performing dance music for sweaty crowds. Cary Grant and Howard Hawks were doing their best to make crowd-pleasers. And we&#8217;d be dumb, and we&#8217;d be denying ourselves a lot of pleasure, if we quarreled with this. (And yes, I know that a lot of what we now think of as Euro high arts weren&#8217;t created as High Art. America still takes the commercial thing to an extreme.) </p>
<p>Yet how to handle this, so far as the lightweight/heavyweight thing goes? Do we proclaim Cary Grant a &#8220;great artist&#8221; and then discuss his work in sombre tones? We&#8217;d be missing the point, no? Yet, y&#8217;know, it looks to me like maybe he really was a great artist. And maybe it&#8217;s worth spending a little time looking at his work and thinking about it and discussing it, and even &#8220;appreciating&#8221; its virutes and maybe even learning from it some. Yet we have to avoid getting too damn sombre about it, no? </p>
<p>I dunno what to make of all this, do you? I tend to conlude that it&#8217;s less about making &#8220;objective&#8221; judgments and more about how we take these things. You aren&#8217;t going to have an emotionally wrenching Dostoeyevskian experience watching &#8220;Topper.&#8221; You&#8217;re going to have something else completely. Yet maybe it&#8217;s pretty great in its own right.</p>
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		<title>By: akaky</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2005/08/28/i-wanna-be-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-10250</link>
		<dc:creator>akaky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/?p=258#comment-10250</guid>
		<description>See? It works every time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See? It works every time.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy French</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2005/08/28/i-wanna-be-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-10236</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy French</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/?p=258#comment-10236</guid>
		<description>Neil,

"About a Boy" is an example of "lad lit," although most are not as popular.

Akaky,  I really thnklo.gm* .2 
g'er
 
;;;;;;;;;rg
ey 

..............................  (flat line)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil,</p>
<p>&#8220;About a Boy&#8221; is an example of &#8220;lad lit,&#8221; although most are not as popular.</p>
<p>Akaky,  I really thnklo.gm* .2<br />
g&#8217;er</p>
<p>;;;;;;;;;rg<br />
ey </p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;  (flat line)</p>
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		<title>By: akaky</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2005/08/28/i-wanna-be-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-10231</link>
		<dc:creator>akaky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/?p=258#comment-10231</guid>
		<description>See, Neil, Nancy is in a coma from the seriousness of it all and Tatyana is in love with me, sight unseen, which is the best way to be in love with me; my visuals are not kind, to put it mildly; and I didnt have to pander with chicklit or toss in pictures of cute little kittens or anything like that. Seriousness at all times is the way to go. For my next trick I will deliver a five hour lecture on the effects of Diocletian's debasement of the Roman currency on farm prices for wheat and other staples in northwestern Upper Dacia in the third century C.E. and its long term ramifications for tax policy and army recruitment in the area. Seriousness, Neil, seriousness, the more profoundly serious the better; in fact, if you can get rigor mortis to set in while they are still alive so much the better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, Neil, Nancy is in a coma from the seriousness of it all and Tatyana is in love with me, sight unseen, which is the best way to be in love with me; my visuals are not kind, to put it mildly; and I didnt have to pander with chicklit or toss in pictures of cute little kittens or anything like that. Seriousness at all times is the way to go. For my next trick I will deliver a five hour lecture on the effects of Diocletian&#8217;s debasement of the Roman currency on farm prices for wheat and other staples in northwestern Upper Dacia in the third century C.E. and its long term ramifications for tax policy and army recruitment in the area. Seriousness, Neil, seriousness, the more profoundly serious the better; in fact, if you can get rigor mortis to set in while they are still alive so much the better.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2005/08/28/i-wanna-be-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-10205</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2005 07:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/?p=258#comment-10205</guid>
		<description>I'm thinking Chick-lit seems to be a hot, profitable market. Neil asked about Guy-Lit, but I think that's too broad. So what about Hung-Like-A-Hamster-Lit? I think that could fly. I'm sure there's a market for it.

My first concern is colours. Chick-Lit seems to favour covers with variations of pink. What would Hung-Like-A-Hamster-Lit favour? Blue is my guess, but what shades? Indigo seems too depressing. Robin's egg perhaps too light-in-the-loafers? I just don't know. 

I think the main character in such fiction should be unattached - but in what way? In a divorced/separated kind of way? Or in a single (as in bachelor) kind of way? And what would his profession be? 

And how much emphasis on back-page classifieds of the "enhancement" variety should there be?

I'm puzzling over all these issues; I have no answers. But if Hung-Like-A-Hamster-Lit can make a go, I think it will owe a great debt to Chick-Lit for blazoning the publishing trail. 

I'm enthused. I think this would address an underserved market (underserved in many ways).  I'm already imagining the dialogue:

"Just who do you think you're going to satisfy with &lt;strong&gt;that&lt;/strong&gt;?"

"Why, me, madam. &lt;strong&gt;Me&lt;/strong&gt;!"

(Apologies for all the comments I've added, but I do enjoy this topic.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m thinking Chick-lit seems to be a hot, profitable market. Neil asked about Guy-Lit, but I think that&#8217;s too broad. So what about Hung-Like-A-Hamster-Lit? I think that could fly. I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s a market for it.</p>
<p>My first concern is colours. Chick-Lit seems to favour covers with variations of pink. What would Hung-Like-A-Hamster-Lit favour? Blue is my guess, but what shades? Indigo seems too depressing. Robin&#8217;s egg perhaps too light-in-the-loafers? I just don&#8217;t know. </p>
<p>I think the main character in such fiction should be unattached - but in what way? In a divorced/separated kind of way? Or in a single (as in bachelor) kind of way? And what would his profession be? </p>
<p>And how much emphasis on back-page classifieds of the &#8220;enhancement&#8221; variety should there be?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m puzzling over all these issues; I have no answers. But if Hung-Like-A-Hamster-Lit can make a go, I think it will owe a great debt to Chick-Lit for blazoning the publishing trail. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m enthused. I think this would address an underserved market (underserved in many ways).  I&#8217;m already imagining the dialogue:</p>
<p>&#8220;Just who do you think you&#8217;re going to satisfy with <strong>that</strong>?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Why, me, madam. <strong>Me</strong>!&#8221;</p>
<p>(Apologies for all the comments I&#8217;ve added, but I do enjoy this topic.)</p>
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		<title>By: brando</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2005/08/28/i-wanna-be-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-10197</link>
		<dc:creator>brando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2005 06:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/?p=258#comment-10197</guid>
		<description>Guy Lit is sold at Adult Bookstores. Coincidentally, readers of both genres are know to reach for the kleenex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guy Lit is sold at Adult Bookstores. Coincidentally, readers of both genres are know to reach for the kleenex.</p>
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		<title>By: Pearl</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2005/08/28/i-wanna-be-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-10188</link>
		<dc:creator>Pearl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2005 05:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/?p=258#comment-10188</guid>
		<description>Hey, Neil, we did have a male writer write an anthology of short stories for our chick lit line -- what can I say? It didn't do too well in the marketplace. I guess men and chick-lit don't mix...when it comes to writing these books. They only mix when it comes to supplying fodder for the storytellers!

(We also publish guy-lit books -- I used to refer to them as "the A Team meets Rambo" stories.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Neil, we did have a male writer write an anthology of short stories for our chick lit line &#8212; what can I say? It didn&#8217;t do too well in the marketplace. I guess men and chick-lit don&#8217;t mix&#8230;when it comes to writing these books. They only mix when it comes to supplying fodder for the storytellers!</p>
<p>(We also publish guy-lit books &#8212; I used to refer to them as &#8220;the A Team meets Rambo&#8221; stories.)</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2005/08/28/i-wanna-be-taken-seriously/comment-page-1/#comment-10185</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2005 04:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/?p=258#comment-10185</guid>
		<description>Does any one publish guy-lit books?  Or are guy-lit books novels like "The Perfect Storm" and "Moby Dick."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does any one publish guy-lit books?  Or are guy-lit books novels like &#8220;The Perfect Storm&#8221; and &#8220;Moby Dick.&#8221;</p>
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